Human Intelligence For An AI World. Discover why intelligence matters in an AI world with some of the world’s best leadership, culture and learning minds. Hosted by Rob Lauber, former Chief Learning Officer at McDonald's. Powered by getapeptalk.com. In our very first episode, Rob is joined by Erik Qualman, a bestselling author, speaker, and digital leadership expert.

"The Flintstones & Jetsons Balancing Act"

Episode Synopsis

As artificial intelligence continues to reshape how we work and live, it’s human expertise that still drives real success. In this episode, Rob Lauber sits down with digital leadership expert and bestselling author Erik Qualman to explore how leaders can navigate the AI revolution without losing the human touch.

Erik introduces his "Jetsons and Flintstones" concept — a reminder that while AI tools can enhance efficiency, nothing replaces face-to-face connection. They dig into why co-intelligence (human plus machine) is the future, not artificial intelligence alone. Erik also shares his "STAMP" framework for digital leadership, strategies for focusing on "big" vs. "busy" work, and the mindset shift needed to be a disruptor rather than the disrupted. Together, they break down the hype, confront ethical challenges, and offer practical advice for leaders and organizations trying to stay ahead, without getting too far ahead of their market.

This conversation delivers a clear message: in a fast-changing AI world, staying grounded in human connection, purpose, and adaptability is the real competitive edge.

Key insights:

  • Why face-to-face human connection still matters in a tech-driven world
  • Co-intelligence: partnering with AI rather than fearing it
  • How to focus on what matters in an increasingly distracted environment
  • Being a disruptor vs. getting disrupted
  • Practical advice for balancing innovation with ethics and human values

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Podcast Transcript, Episode 01

Rob Lauber

Artificial intelligence is advancing fast, but it's human expertise that makes the difference. I'm Rob Lauber, a 30-plus-year veteran of the ever-changing world of workplace learning and performance. Join me and my guests on this PepTalk, where we'll unpack how professionals, leaders, and innovators are shaping AI's role in organizations and how they will blend AI power tools with live human experiences.

Let's explore what happens when human expertise meets artificial intelligence. And I'm super honored today to have with me Erik Qualman. And a little bit about Erik: if you don't know him, you're living under a rock. However, Erik is a five-time, number-one best-selling author and keynote speaker.

He's performed in over 55 countries, reached 50 million people, which is probably understated. I love these fun facts where he actually voted the second most likable author in the world behind Harry Potter's J.K. Rowling. That's no small feat. 

His socialnomics work has been on 60 Minutes, the Wall Street Journal, and used by the National Guard and NASA. He is a current professor of digital leadership at Northwestern University, and his materials are currently used at over 500 universities. He also has an animation studio that works with some of the world's leading brands, including Disney, Oreo, Chase, Cartier, and many more.

A former sitting professor at MIT and Harvard's edX labs, where I think he's still an advisor, he's received an honorary degree, a doctorate degree for his groundbreaking work. And he's also the inventor of a best-selling board game called Kittycorn. And most importantly, similar to me actually, he's trying to live up to the world's dad coffee mug he received from his wife and two daughters.

And as the father of three daughters, I can certainly relate to that, Erik, in terms of that's probably the toughest standard of all to live up to. So let's, my first question for you really is, you know, I was doing a little background here, and in your talks, you emphasize the importance of balancing AI with human interaction. You refer to it as Jetsons and Flintstones. 

Could you elaborate on more of what this balance entails and why it's crucial in today's digital age?

Erik Qualman

Yeah, thank you, Rob. It's important, as always, to not replace the face-to-face. And so you can't replace the coffees, the lunches, or the conferences, even conferences face-to-face. 

We learned that the hard way a couple years ago during the pandemic. But it's really about layering in these tools when time, safety, distance, and scale are an issue. How can I use these tools when time, distance, safety, and scale are an issue to deepen relationships?

So that's the key that all leaders that I've been blessed to meet across those countries share. They understand it always leads with the Flintstones. Then how do we use these tools to deepen those relationships, that human connection?

So that's why you never want to leave CITES. If you do, if you just kind of sit there and go tool, tool, tool, you will lose long term.

Rob Lauber

Yeah, it's interesting to watch, you know, this enamorment or distraction, really, with generative tools, for example, where it's like, well, I'll just go ask ChatGPT, as opposed to phoning a friend, right? Very interesting sort of dynamics to watch these days in terms of probably leaning a bit too much into the hype. What's your thoughts on that?

Erik Qualman

Yeah, I think it's over-hyped short term, under-hyped long term. And we don't know what that term is. We'd both, Rob, you and I would be the richest people in the world if we knew the timeline of any of these things.

But most of this stuff is slow until it's really fast. And so when I say under-hyped long term, it's like AI is going to be huge. I call it co-intelligence. 

I think artificial intelligence is a bad name for it, that it's just something like you said, you ping your co-workers. You should first and then ping co-intelligence just to figure out, you know, get different ideas, different bounces. But I still always get all my best ideas from those coffees and those lunches.

But now more and more following that coffee and lunch, I'll just kind of go into some co-intelligence, just try to figure out what they're saying as well and kind of marry those two together.

Rob Lauber

It makes a lot of sense. You've identified like five digital leadership habits that drive success. How do these evolve now when you integrate AI into organizational strategies?

Erik Qualman

Yes. So from our research, we want to figure out, you know, technology changes every second. Human nature never does.

And so we're sitting down with leaders. We want to know like what stands the test of time, knowing that you can't predict the future, that you can only kind of help design it yourself. And by designing it, that means the habits that you practice.

And so when we went into our research, we didn't know if it's going to be three habits, 15 habits. But it turns out that there's really five common habits when it comes to leaders in this digital era and as we step into the quantum era. And those five habits form the acronym STAMP just for super fast flyover. 

It's just really about simplifying this stuff down that allows you to go further faster. It's about being true to yourself, always having that true north. So don't just chase the wind with this new technology.

A's for action. Don't be afraid to take that action. Take that step.

Fail fast. Fail forward. Fail better.

I talk about being FLOSSUM. People don't love you because you're perfect. They love you because you're perfectly flawed. 

So be FLOSSUM. It's about M for map. Big difference there is you've got a firm destination, but you're flexible in your path.

That's the big shift. Flexible in your path on how you get there. And then last but not least, it's P for people.

How to surround yourself with the right people, both offline and also online. So it's really about simple, true, act, map, P for people, and go deep on which one you're the strongest in.

Rob Lauber

Yeah, interesting stuff. Probably great for the environment, particularly where people are feeling uncertain about what all this means. It's sort of a way to almost get control of your world, right?

And sort of manage through the uncertainty that might lie ahead.

Erik Qualman

Yeah, indeed. No, for sure.

Rob Lauber

Yeah. Hey, in your book, The Focus Project, you talk about the importance of like focus in an unfocused world, which is, you know, I think the stamp model is a great way to sort of drive that focus. How does this apply to, how do you see this sort of evolving or applying as professionals work alongside AI technologies?

Erik Qualman

The key is like focus is first and foremost, as an individual, you know, no matter what the technology is, it's really how do I focus on big versus busy things? How do I focus? And sometimes that's going slow, short term to get long term gains.

Slow in the short term, you're going to be more long term. So what do I mean by that? I mean, busy is emails pulling at you every day, or it's like, what's the shiny object pulling at you?

Big is, you know, that idea that you've wanted to accomplish. And sometimes it's something you want to accomplish for years, but it's really about chipping away at that slowly each and every day. And then long term, you'll accomplish more things.

So that's the key is how to focus on big versus busy. And then when comes to technology, how do I focus on being that change versus fearing that change? Because all of us, including myself, and I love technology, it's when new things come out, the first thing you do is kind of fear it and don't want to get into it because it's just another thing that's added, you think it's added to your plate, but it's really about embracing, okay, how do I be the change versus fearing that change?

Rob Lauber

Yeah, interesting stuff. And, you know, again, back to sort of driving more certainty in an uncertain world, right, is about that focus. And I really love that idea in terms of helping people navigate and manage through that.

You've also, you know, that leads me to another thing, you've talked a lot about sort of being the disruptor rather than the disrupted, right? So how does that fit into sort of the focus pieces we just talked about your STAMP model, those kind of things, you know, and then this overlay of sort of AI as a distractor/disruptor/enabler at the same time, right?

Erik Qualman

Yeah, it's about, you know, being the disruptor versus the disrupted is really believing in yourself. And so you don't use old maps to get the new places, right, new destinations, you're not going to use an old map. So as a pioneer, which a lot of you out there are, you're pioneering, you're going to get that pushback, it's actually really frustrating in the moment, but long term, that means it's like you're actually pioneering when you're not getting that pushback, that's when you're like, oh, I'm about to get disrupted, or my organization's about to get displaced.

And so all of you have like an examples of this. So, firsthand, like 15 years ago, when I wrote my first book, Socialnomics, search engine optimization was huge, paid search, search, search, search, search. And so I was actually the head of market at Travelzoo.

And we spent an exorbitant amount on search, which is unusual for a small company that went private, then we went public. So they're all curious, like, how is this small company crushing it? And they're spending so why they spending so much on search.

So they wanted us to explain why we're talking search at the search engine conferences. Yep, they exist. Search engine conferences they do exist.

And I started talking about social media, which at the time everyone thought was teenage stuff. And so they're like this Qualman guy's crazy. Like, there's not anyone going to his sessions.

He's supposed to be able to talk, we want to hear about search. Yeah, not socially. He's talking about this teenage thing called MySpace. 

And so you have to have that conviction to really go and go, yep, I get it. Everyone's a lot of noise saying, what do you talk about this teenage stuff? And then all of a sudden, it's the right place, right time. 

That's like, no, this stuff's going to be big for business politics going to revolutionize how we communicate. So for all of us out there, we got to understand that when you're pioneering, you're going to get that pushback. And so listen to it to understand like maybe where you adjust, but also understand you're like, nope, this is why everyone thinks I'm crazy.

That's a good thing because they don't see it. So let me just keep stay the course, take in that information, but keep doing, keep having that firm destination, but flexible in your path on how you get there.

Rob Lauber

Yeah, I'm waiting for the big prompt conference, right? Now it's prompt, prompt, prompt. But it was leading me to think about, there's a concept in that around sort of right place, right time too, right?

That you need to be thinking about as well as a measure against your ideas. Like you were talking about social networks and those types of things sort of a bit ahead of its moment, right? So how did you, you know, people are like, Hey, we want you to bring us back here.

Wait a second. Bring people along sort of the, cause you could see the future where it was going. Many people can't, what's your sort of secret to taking people with you on that?

Erik Qualman

Gosh, I mean, it's really just trying to pick the one that you think's going to happen sooner rather than later. But again, none of us can get that timing right. Cause you'd be the richest person in the world.

So QR codes, 2003, we're at the tip of the spear. You're like, everyone's going to use QR codes. They're so amazing.

They're so useful. And then no one uses it until 17 years later, pandemic hits. Okay.

We're going to use these a example of what that looks like right now. I'm like, Hey, mobile voting. And then this is where people look at you like you're crazy, blah, blah, blah.

This is why it won't happen. I'm like, mobile voting is going to happen, but we just don't know when it's going to happen. It could be five years, could be 20 years.

So it's really about testing this stuff out. So when that moment hits like, okay, the world's ready for it. They're ready for that QR code.

They're ready for the social media. It's getting ready. They're ready for digital currency.

That's another example. Yeah. No doubt in my mind, there's going to be one global currency that's digital.

Uh, is it Bitcoin? I don't know what it's going to be, but it's going to happen, but we don't know the timing. So self-driving cars, we don't know the timing.

They've been talking about that since the fifties. That's why it's called the auto mobile. Uh, and so it's, it's trying to figure out which one's got the most like Lee hood to happen.

So artificial intelligence, I think is going to happen. It's already happening. We're using it.

So that's a good indicator is we're at the tip of the spear of at the beginning of it. I don't know when the big massive like takeover is with artificial, not like in a dystopian way, but that's where you just got to keep your, your kind of ear to the ground. But when you're seeing 500 weekly, 500 million weekly users using something like Chat GPT and grandparents are using it, that's unusual.

That hasn't happened before. That's fast. And so it's about figuring out, okay, what's next with this stuff?

Rob Lauber

Yeah. It's interesting. Cause I talk to people about the, like the pace of evolution, you know, we'll probably be faster this time around, but the path of evolution will likely be the same, right?

A lot of trial error on the outset, a lot of great ideas on the front, a lot of big ball predictions about how it's going to eliminate everybody's job. We're just going to sit at home kind of, you know, crazy prognosticating out there yet at the same time, most big change has always been very evolutionary, right? I'm old enough, unfortunately, to remember when the internet started and you don't want a desktop computer landed in the office and those kinds of things.

And it was like, Oh my God, it's over. And, or, you know, e-commerce will never go to a store again. Right.

And here we are 25 years later, still doing all those things, but in much different ways than they were before. Right. Evolved more than sort of dissolved, I guess, is a way to think about it. 

Erik Qualman

Yeah. That's a good way to put it. I remember working on a project as an intern on the next school bus design.

So if you ever want to know anything about that yellow school bus, I know more than I can bore your pants off with that. It does get fascinating when you get in the weeds on some of this stuff, but that was the thought before the turn of the century. So over a quarter of a century ago, and think about that's wild, but everyone thought the school bus is going to go away because it'd all be remote learning.

This is before online learning. They thought you'd be doing, because they saw people learning Spanish from that, the best Spanish teacher in the world, all VHS tape data, whatever. And so crazy DVDs.

And so the school bus hasn't changed much. And so fortunately we got it right when my prediction was, Hey, it's not going to change much. You're going to go to a little bigger buses because there's more students.

There's class D buses, flat nose for safety. Other than that, not much is going to change. And so that's another example of what that looks like as well.

Rob Lauber

Yeah. So thinking about AI, I think it's sort of back to where we started in the construct of the human interaction, human intelligence piece has always been important. Our need for experts has always been important.

It's funny. I was talking to people last week and I'm at a conference [Docebo Inspire 2025] and I'm like, you're all here because you value learning from other people. Don't expect that to change.

If it was to change, you wouldn't come. You would just go type in your ChatGPT or whatever tool you use, and you'd get the answers to everything you wanted to learn. And so I think it's a really important reminder for all of us.

And I know you're doing a ton of work in that space as well. What are you seeing organizations grapple with when it comes to that sort of AI-HI balance kind of world?

Erik Qualman

The biggest grapple, just like any technology for the last 30 years is just understanding, making sure that all you have to do at the end of the day, because it gets overwhelming, all this stuff gets very overwhelming quickly. And this stuff's amazing. I mean, some of the stuff I could do is just mind boggling.

Some of the stuff I did this morning using it, and you should be using this stuff every day because, again, it's slow till it's fast. So you need to be in it all the time. So the biggest thing they're wrestling with is, is they're overcomplicating things more times than not.

Just remind yourself any organization, small, B2B, B2C, doesn't matter. It's all about all I need to do is stay a year ahead of the competition, but never a year ahead of my market. So you never want to be ahead of your market because it's going to be burning cash.

And you just got to remember, I just got to be a year ahead of my competition. So depending on what marketplace you're in, unless you're in the entertainment, the fastest moving are always tech, entertainment and auto. And so if you're not in those, you have the blessing of seeing what they're going through.

And yes, I know we all want to think we're unique, but fortunately, most industries, when you engage with most of them, like I have, they're like 90% the same. There's some compliance things in different industries, but it's really looking to those fast leaders to understand what's working, what's not working. And then you, it's going to come down the pipe to you.

It always does. And so just learn from them and this remind yourself, I just need to say a year ahead of my competition, but I don't need to be out of my market. That'd be bad to be a year ahead of my market with this stuff.

Rob Lauber

Yeah, super. I think that's some great advice in terms of, you know, I've been in a few conversations where people trying to sort of figure out where to start, figure out where to go, understand where they can, you know, where the biggest impact, meaningful value driving impact can be those kinds of things. I've also been in quite a few conversations around sort of ethical use on ethical implications.

Have you, have you been in any of those kinds of conversations or what have you seen on that front?

Erik Qualman

Oh yeah, definitely. I mean, anytime there's new technology, there's always nefarious actors. And so it's important to always at the core teach those ethics.

So that's why at the university level, that's one of the best things. And at the elementary level, all the way to high school, it's really teaching ethics and how to be kind because no matter what this technology does, you need to have that core as a base. So there's always nefarious actors with any kind of new technology.

So it's important we're aware of that. But the good thing is we humans have a good history of working through that and figuring it out, but sometimes that's longer than we'd like, like social media. What are we working through?

We're working through, it's causing teen suicide. And so, especially on the female level, and you have three daughters, I have two daughters. And so it's important to understand that how can we get through this faster?

And so voices like us, if we can figure that out quickly to realize what's the seatbelt, what's the seatbelt for this? You know, what's the skiing helmet for this? So you look back, it's laughable.

Like what is a pitcher? You're not even wearing a helmet. You're skiing, like what are you doing?

Or you're in a car, you don't even have a seatbelt on, that's crazy. So we figure these things out, hopefully figure them out sooner rather than later.

Rob Lauber

Yeah, I think that's right. And I've seen a lot of conversations around sort of the boundaries, right? And AI has really been sort of a boundary expander, right?

It lets you do things you couldn't do before, yet at the same time as the boundaries expand, unintended consequences might lurk into the shadows there, right? And I love your seatbelt helmet kind of analogy, because I think that's right. It's where do you really need to make sure you're not going to crash and make sure you're not going to hurt yourself in the process, right?

Super interesting.

Erik Qualman

And you know, you're comfortable with us talking to CEO that fascinating use, because I talked about the beginning, it's all about co-intelligence. So thinking about co-workers, co-intelligence, bouncing ideas, and so what they do, and this is, you got to figure out what you can do from a legal standpoint within your company and also what you're comfortable with. But this company is more than comfortable before every board meeting, they've been doing this now for six quarters, that they actually will upload their deck that they're giving to the board.

And then I also upload information about each board member. And so then they say, how is this board member going to react in this quarterly meeting to the information that we're going to be going over? And they found the accuracy levels about 85 to 93%.

They use all the tools to predict it. It seems like Claude works the best in this instance, but they're doing that before the meeting. So that was a fascinating use just to bounce those ideas.

Oh, this board member is going to be interested in this, this board member is going to react negatively to this. And so before they, and they all on the same page, they know what's going on, but it's just fascinating to kind of, that's a great use of this technology.

Rob Lauber

Well, you think about it, it elevates the quality of the conversation then as well, right? Because people are able to, if you're able to anticipate what, how someone might react without actually having, you know, putting it in front of them, it makes you that much more prepared for those situations, improving the quality of what you're trying to convey at the same time, improving the quality of the conversation that goes on. Right? 

And that's, that's the super, you know, that's the super outcomes that you always want from great human interactions.

Erik Qualman

So, no, indeed, for sure.

Rob Lauber

Really cool. Erik, thanks so much for joining us for these few minutes today. We really enjoyed the conversation.

Anything else you want to add? You know, how's your aspiration going against your parents, against your kids? I know for me, it's a constant challenge, minor in their early twenties, all navigating this work world where it's like, what is, you know, the constant question is like, what does this mean?

Right. To everything that's going on these days.

Erik Qualman

Yeah, no, I mean, it's one of those things I was just cleaning up some of my computer and seeing some old footage with the girls. And it's just a reminder that's the number one thing that we can do in life. And so, anyway, obviously, on the individual level, it's dads that were doing that.

But then also beyond that scope is how can we help everyone, this younger generation out. So hopefully use some of our wisdom with these new technologies, because as you said, really, that path is always very similar. The pace is changing and will.

I love the way you said that as we jump into the quantum era, but anything that we can do to help people. So I always just say at the end of the day, have fun, period, help people, period. And so anything we can do to that end, that's a win.

Awesome.

Rob Lauber

Thanks again for joining us today, Erik. Really love the conversation and appreciate you making the time to have us on this PepTalk podcast series.

Erik Qualman

No, I love it, Rob. Thank you so much. What an honor.

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References

About Erik Qualman

Erik Qualman is a bestselling author, speaker, and digital leadership expert. His work, including “Socialnomics,” has influenced over 50 million people across 55 countries. A professor at Northwestern, he advises top brands like Disney and Chase, blending innovation, storytelling, and education to help leaders thrive in the digital age.

Connect with Erik

About Rob Lauber

Rob Lauber is the host of the Human Intelligence In An AI World podcast. As the former CLO at McDonald's, Yum! Brands, and AT&T, Rob is a workforce development expert with 30+ years' experience. Named CLO of the Year (2013), he led major initiatives like Archways to Opportunity and now advises companies worldwide through XLO Global LLC. Board leader and respected industry voice.

Connect with Rob

Written by the PepTalk team